- Created Friday, September 25th 2015 @ 23:36:18
The beta phase soon ends so here is some last minute(?) feedback from my side. I think with the current system the point system is almost useless because almost the only thing that matters is downstacking.
My current bot uses an evaluation function that I found on the internet. How much AI is that? I tried to tweak it to add "number of scored points" as a component, and found out that I could improve it by 1.5% against the "plain" internet evaluation function by adding a rule "if all else is equal, prefer the solution that scores most points". Any more focus on point scoring produced a worse performing bot. I think I can improve a little bit on this internet evaluation function, but it is likely that improvements are mostly in the area of downstacking ability, not on point scoring ability.
As I wrote before, the problem is IMO in the garbage lines; it is much more important to clean received garbage than taking risks to try to achieve a high score.
So my proposal is (although I have not tested it myself) that solid lines should be sent to the opponent based on scored points, not "every 20th round" as now is the case, so bots get a more lasting reward for scoring points -> bots will take more risks to score points -> new strategies are required, internet downstacking algorithms won't win -> more fun for AI programmers...:)
- Created Saturday, September 26th 2015 @ 20:05:25
May be a bot after dropping 4 scores, should be allowed to "mess" with the opponent game? i.e. decide which piece would show up, instead of earlier promised "Next"? or allow to drop a line of pieces on top of the board? or swap boards? :)
- Created Wednesday, September 30th 2015 @ 09:44:51
Well, you can give all or some garbagelines two holes, not adjacent to each other (in left-right and up-down positions). They will be a lot harder to remove and the combobonus will vanish when downstacking to the extreme. You have to remove them line after line so every garbage will only give you 1 point. My own game-engine is still in development ;/ so I cannot test this assumption. Alternatively, you can give each bot 5 or so shots, which can be used if you want to insert an double hole garbage line if you have enough points. This way you can actively influence your opponent (at the moment this seems almost not the case).
OkeyDokeyCreated Wednesday, September 30th 2015 @ 23:45:50
I must admit that the survival bot (singleplayer, 0 previews) evaluation functions work pretty good with the current system. Sending solid garbage by points may resolve that issue. But I would go for 1 solid line every 12 points and not every 8 points. Or let only Tetrises, T-Spin Doubles & big combos send solid garbage. Anyway, I would also scrap the "every 20 pieces a solid lines" rule.
If all garbage lines have 2 holes, this is too hard to downstack. Every second row having an extra hole might work though.
Other ways to weaken downstacking: - make Singles and 2 Combos (2 successive line clears) less powerful - garbage hole changes (almost) every line - send garbage lines every 3 points - make piece droughts less common (so that Tetris gaps and T-Spin overhangs are less risky)
- Created Thursday, October 1st 2015 @ 11:49:46
I like the idea of two (not connected) holes in a garbage lines. Or that 1 line will result in one hole, two in two (per line), ect..
There is a good reason for forcing solid lines. Restricting this to special manoeuvres can result in games that continue for ever. I think the current system works fine at this part.
- Created Monday, October 5th 2015 @ 21:35:10
I also like Sithistar's idea of 2 holes in garbage lines. Not every line should have 2 garbage holes, because then we would be back to the original point system, as a line with 2 garbage holes is almost as bad for the opponent as a solid line. Alternating between 1 hole and 2 holes may work very well.
- Updated Tuesday, October 6th 2015 @ 07:51:25
2 holes in garbage lines is a good idea because it reduces luck as a factor. Non adjacent is not that relevant in my opinion. It would happen once very 4-5 lines which is totally fine and fun.
I still hope for changes that also increase complexity like multi-next or hold.
- Updated Wednesday, October 7th 2015 @ 02:13:24
imho having luck factor in the game makes it a bit more exciting.
Take Warlight 2 for example, GreenTea has been in the lead there for months! but ended up 5th.
- Updated Wednesday, October 7th 2015 @ 07:40:50
Well ... not even the winner was excited about that.
And nobody was talking about removing luck. It's about removing 10+ combos based on purely random garbage lines and pieces. Doesn't matter if it hits me or my opponent, I turn those games off immediatly.
- Created Wednesday, October 7th 2015 @ 09:46:57
Yup, these 10+ combos are fun to watch... when you are the one getting them :D
- Updated Wednesday, October 7th 2015 @ 14:18:17
hmm... how about this - combo points are dropped if the only line removed is a garbage line?
That keeps the "luck" factor, since the bucket is cleared fast. It also keep the opponent in the game, since lines would grow in the "normal" pace (1 garbage line per 4 lines dropped)
- Updated Saturday, October 10th 2015 @ 14:13:58
I think this is the best option:
Clearing 1 line doesn't give any points. Then downstacking without any strategy won't send many lines and using t-spins and making multiline clears are more useful. Combos would be little worse than now, but not too much.
And after making this I think OkeyDokey's suggestion might be good: "send garbage lines every 3 points"
Games where both bots only try to survive would last long, so solid lines could be sent every 10 rounds to prevent 300+ rounds games. Then games would last always less than 200 rounds.
DeveloperCreated Thursday, October 22nd 2015 @ 15:51:32
Just to give you all an heads up: I will be updating Block Battle for the last time next week. Unless there are some serious issues with the game it will go off of Beta from then on and the finals will be announced.
- Created Monday, October 26th 2015 @ 14:33:13
Uraaa !!! :) It is already time for this. Thanks.