- Created Friday, May 20th 2016 @ 02:06:36
...but going first is a pretty big deal in this game. Like, 200 ELO big deal. It doesn't seem fair to have something this important depend on a coin flip pre-match (whoever gets to go first). It would make way more sense if "matches" consisted of two games, where each player goes first once.
- Updated Friday, May 20th 2016 @ 16:21:45
Yes, I've requested that before for multiple competitions. It's funny that komi is included in Go, while that is probably the one game where it doesn't come that close.
Just how important it is to play first: http://theaigames.com/competitions/ultimate-tic-tac-toe/game-log/HalesJewett+ButterCheeseEgg/1
What's even more worrying is that the finals (of Omaha poker) were even designed to be without this coin flip. Multiple games were played, but with the same bot playing first in every game.
- Created Sunday, May 22nd 2016 @ 10:15:25
I hope Developers will hear our cry :)
DeveloperCreated Monday, May 23rd 2016 @ 08:43:14
I hear you ;) But for this competition it will not be changed anymore. The leaderboard rankings should still average out to the true values because everybody plays as much player 1 as player 2. Furthermore I don't think playing two games is the right solution because then there would just be a lot of draws.
- Created Monday, May 23rd 2016 @ 17:56:19
Thank you for replying Jim. The problem as I see it is that the fluctuations in the leaderboard due to periods of time where a bot have been recently playing more often as first or as second are quite big, above all in the crowded 10th-30th positions spot.
I think that even small changes in the pairing formula (like: when two bots play, choose who is first/second so to "even the imbalance") might go a long way in avoiding a bot to be "unfairly" treated, above all in the finals.
- Created Tuesday, May 24th 2016 @ 00:03:36
Also, if the semis/finals of this are going to be like the semis/finals of Omaha where (according to jvo) multiple games are played, it should be ensured that each bot goes first the same number of games.